Farewell. The Flying Pig Has Left The Building.

Steve Hynd, August 16, 2012

After four years on the Typepad site, eight years total blogging, Newshoggers is closing it's doors today. We've been coasting the last year or so, with many of us moving on to bigger projects (Hey, Eric!) or simply running out of blogging enthusiasm, and it's time to give the old flying pig a rest.

We've done okay over those eight years, although never being quite PC enough to gain wider acceptance from the partisan "party right or wrong" crowds. We like to think we moved political conversations a little, on the ever-present wish to rush to war with Iran, on the need for a real Left that isn't licking corporatist Dem boots every cycle, on America's foreign misadventures in Afghanistan and Iraq. We like to think we made a small difference while writing under that flying pig banner. We did pretty good for a bunch with no ties to big-party apparatuses or think tanks.

Those eight years of blogging will still exist. Because we're ending this typepad account, we've been archiving the typepad blog here. And the original blogger archive is still here. There will still be new content from the old 'hoggers crew too. Ron writes for The Moderate Voice, I post at The Agonist and Eric Martin's lucid foreign policy thoughts can be read at Democracy Arsenal.

I'd like to thank all our regular commenters, readers and the other bloggers who regularly linked to our posts over the years to agree or disagree. You all made writing for 'hoggers an amazingly fun and stimulating experience.

Thank you very much.

Note: This is an archive copy of Newshoggers. Most of the pictures are gone but the words are all here. There may be some occasional new content, John may do some posts and Ron will cross post some of his contributions to The Moderate Voice so check back.


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Saturday, October 24, 2009

Science is not a Religion

By BJ Bjornson


Even if there are those who occasionally treat it that way.


The title refers to the introductory post of David Sloan Wilson�s at Scienceblogs, �Science as a Religion that Worships Truth as its God�. I have a number of critiques about the post, but none as glaring as the title and theme.


The best take-down of said title I�ve seen is from Henry Gee, who notes that science is about the quantification of doubt rather than the pursuit of truth.


I don�t think I�ve read or heard anything more misleading all day, and in this post I hope to explain why I am so concerned.


The short answer (don�t worry, I have a longer one handy) is that it is not the business of science to discover �truth�, because �truth� cannot be judged to be such, in any absolute way. To put it another way, were we to stumble upon the �truth� we could never know that we had done so.


What science is all about, in contrast, is the quantification of doubt.


It is doubt, friends, that fuels science: the testing of hypotheses; the subjection of scientific ideas, grant applications, papers and presentations, to exacting scepticism.




James Hrynyshyn, at the appropriately (for this) titled Island of Doubt adds:


Let me just add that I know that social theorists find these kind of statements annoying. They consider science just another ideology with all the baggage that comes with one. But whenever I get into a debate with one of those social theorists, it's clear they don't understand how science really works. I will continue to insist that science is neither ideology nor religion. No other ideology or religion even comes close to the scientific method's reliance on skepticism to advance understanding.




I would say that it isn�t just social theorists who like to lump science in with religions and other ideologies, as there are significant political and financial gains to be made by doing the same.


While the reliance upon doubt and skepticism make science the very powerful tool that it is, it is also used quite cynically by those who oppose its findings to try and undermine them.


The most common form of this is the �there is actually a lot of controversy over X�, with X being anything from evolution to climate change. This is usually a partial truth, as with something like evolution, there really isn�t any scientific controversy over its occurrence but a fair bit over the exact mechanisms by which it occurs. But even at that, one cannot say as a scientist that evolution in an absolute certainty. As Hrynyshyn says in his post, �a lack of uncertainty is one of the ways you can identify something as unscientific.� We are generally disposed to granting arguments to people who can claim absolute certainty in their positions, whereas as a proper skeptic and scientist, one has to always acknowledge the possibility, however remote, that you may be wrong. Doing so sounds wishy-washy and uncertain, like you are unsure of the merits of your argument, which doesn�t do so well debate-wise with people who can proclaim the certainty of their own beliefs. Of course, belief in something says nothing about its accuracy, but one can be endlessly impressed by how hard folks cling to such beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence.


Faced with such opposition, it is hard to resist using the language of certainty yourself when engaged in arguments over these topics. Do so, however, and you�re painted as just another ideologue who �believes� in evolution, or climate change, or science itself. And, since as I noted above belief doesn�t imply accuracy, if you can pretend that science is just another belief system, you can also ignore its findings in favour of your own belief system.


(As an aside, my co-workers have noticed that while I tend to shoot down their arguments with some certainty, I usually couch my own arguments with qualifiers like �seems to�, �its likely that�, and so forth. The reason being that it is far easier to know if something is wrong that to be certain that something is right. If the evidence contradicts a claim, you can be certain the claim is incorrect, whereas if the evidence supports the claim, you can only properly have some confidence that the claim is provisionally true, since further research may turn up some contradictions. That scientific way of thinking colours the way I see pretty much everything, it seems.)


All this is a long-winded way of saying that if you want to increase the role of science and scientific thought in the public domain, then it would be best not to attach to it the trappings of an ideology or belief system.


For the last word, we�ll go to PZ Meyers:


Science isn't a religion, period. It doesn't worship anything. Science is a toolbox, and if you must stretch the metaphor even further, doubt is the crowbar we use to get at useful answers�but again, we don't worship the crowbar. We admire it, can ooh and aaah over a particularly well-tricked-out crowbar, and we can relish opportunities to swing it, but it never, ever assumes the role of religion in our our lives.


David Sloan Wilson is going to fit right in. He's giving everyone an excuse to swing their crowbars.



And it appears that there is a lot of swinging going on at scienceblogs, which is the way it should be.



7 comments:

  1. I agree with PZ that science is not a religion but a tool but religion itself is a tool used by the powerful to stay powerful.

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  2. BJ,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly: science is not a religion...depending on how you define religion.
    In the field of secular, religious scholarship, the most basic definition is "a set of beliefs that informs behavior in this world". From that definition one could make a case for science being religious (as opposed to being a religion). But i'm just picking nits.
    I still agree with you. What i see, however, is a certain religiofication of science...or more precisely of technology as the product of science.
    Scientists don't practice a religion of science, but the secular community often behaves towards science as lay believers in a religion. That's not the fault of scientists.
    What makes science non-religious is that it is not based on secret knowledge or requisite belief. On the other hand, how many average people have even the faintest grasp of modern science? How many can explain the theory of relativity, much less quantum mechanics. So for many the whole thing might as well be a mass in Latin; what they're concerned with are the blessing that the high priests of science might bestow upon them. And those things tend to be the same things that lay believers expect from their religion: good harvests, less death, etc.
    Just to be clear, i agree with you. I'm only pointing out a different and more ignorant perspective.

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  3. This is quite an old conversation and I don't aim to resolve it in a comments thread, but here are two inputs:
    (1.) One of my undergraduate fields of study was folklore (Insert joke her about basket-weaving) which really is an academic discipline. The name of Joseph Campbell and references such as the Aarne-Thompson Index of Tales and Tale-Types come to mind. An umbrella category covering both science and religion may be mythology, a belief system providing archetypes for all belief systems. I once asked my professor his definition of "myth" and he gave me this. "Myth is the highest form of truth in any society." That was all I needed; I leave it there.
    (2.) Krista Tippet's Speaking of Faith is public radio's weekly program about "religion, meaning, ethics, and ideas. Over the past several years she had had a number of guests who come to terms with the science/religion issue in a variety of ways. The name John Polkinghorne sticks in my mind, but many have been broadcast which will keep the inquisitive mind busy for a very long time.
    Check also Science and Being

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  4. I know exactly where you are coming from Lex, which is why I started the post with the point that there are those who treat it that way.
    Best example I can think of is a conversation I had several years ago, where I overhead a guy I knew waxing about how stupid the people of the Middle Ages must have been to believe things like the Sun orbiting the Earth rather than the other way around, and of course how much smarter and more sophisticated we must be because we know the truth.
    I interrupted him and asked just how it was he knew the Earth orbited the Sun and not the other way around? Did he perform any tests? Take detailed observations of the sky and model them to see what the best fit for the solar system happened to be? Basically, did he actually know just how the determination of the Earth orbiting the Sun rather than the other way around was made.
    Or, did he know that because somebody told it to him and he believed them? For the vast majority of us, it is the latter, which is I think the point you�re making. Most people see science the same way they do religion in that their experience with it is the laying down of revealed truths from authority figures.
    And none of us is immune to this kind of reasoning. My favourite story of Einstein is that when he first completed his theory of general relativity, he ran through the numbers and saw that they predicted an expanding universe. Only thing was that the current prevailing wisdom at the time was for a static universe, and so Einstein assumed he had got something wrong and went back and added another variable to balance things out and keep his theoretical universe static. It was a couple of years later that Hubble proved the universe was indeed expanding and Einstein had to go back and rework his equations to their original form, kicking himself for an idiot the entire time. Granted its argument from authority in its way, but I figure if he can make that kind of error, the rest of us shouldn�t be too hard on ourselves for occasionally doing the same.
    I certainly don�t go around running experiments on everything I hear. I might dig deeper into some subjects than most, but I really don�t have the time or equipment, or indeed the knowledge to test most of what science is working on these days.
    For me, the biggest problem with science education is that most of what is being taught is focused on pounding the facts into kid�s heads rather than showing them how to apply the toolbox to acquire those answers themselves, to teach them how to think rather than to spout facts out. (Granted I have little idea of how to that, my sister is the teacher of the family, but I do try to impress on her the importance of this sort of thing.)
    John, I�ll check out your links later and get back to you.

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  5. BJ, we're definitely on the same page. And i think you get to the heart of the matter with this:
    ...the biggest problem with science education is that most of what is being taught is focused on pounding the facts into kid�s heads rather than showing them how to apply the toolbox to acquire those answers themselves, to teach them how to think rather than to spout facts out.
    All i can say is, "exactly".
    I'm constantly amused by people who like the one in your anecdote, especially since people like that tend to be ignorant of the fact that plenty of people before the Middle Ages figured out that the Earth was moving and apparently did lots of calculations/observations that allowed them to build complex structures tuned to the heavens. But those are also the type who think that everyone believed the world to be flat until brave Columbus proved them wrong, when in fact the spherical nature of the planet was well-accepted fact (especially outside the Church).

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  6. Hootsbuddy,
    If I�m reading your links properly, I think you�re looking at a different debate here. This post is about science not being a religion, not whether science and religion are compatible. I don�t particularly want to get into that other debate here, but so far as Polkinghome is concerned, I�ve heard most of those arguments before, and seen nearly every one of them debunked. At times, he even contradicts himself during the course of the interview, like when he explains how poor the �god of the gaps� explanation is, but then later tries to explain how god acts in such places and with such subtlety that they would be impossible to see or measure - i.e. - in the gaps where we can�t see him. Not to mention he takes considerable liberties with his explanations of some of the science being talked about, which rather hurt his credibility for me.
    In any case, I don�t really care how people rationalize their beliefs with science. My problems are usually with those who use their beliefs to deny others information or rights or otherwise interfere with other�s actions.

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  7. Got it. I was slow on the uptake, distracted by the vocabulary.
    In any case, I don�t really care how people rationalize their beliefs with science. My problems are usually with those who use their beliefs to deny others information or rights or otherwise interfere with other�s actions.
    Agree completely.

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